@dookiex Part of the problem is that they just don’t care. They could make the device better by adding some third party apps or creating their own interface. They should have teamed up with Firefox to create a touch friendly browser. Second, they should dual-boot this device with WebOS. Thirdly, they need to advertise it more.
@piratesmvp The reason there’s a Slate 2 is most likely due to contractual agreements with MS (the original Slate was released due to contractual agreements, is more Microsoft’s product than HP’s, Microsoft gave us our unit, not HP). The device was DOA and even HP didn’t want to release it but they were MS main tablet vendor for Windows 7 tablets. There’s a reason that HP never produced these things in large volumes (I think for the original Slate, they are still selling their initial stock).
@dookiex Sure it is a small number, but it’s still some people when you implied that no one could possibly like this device. And, if the device is really failing that badly, why did HP just announce Slate 2? And, yes, the iPad is a very useful tool in many professional environments, but that doesn’t mean other companies can’t try to compete.
@piratesmvp Negligible number of review. You have to remember, this thing came out as strictly a enterprise product and was initially sold strictly through their enterprise services. The fact that it ended up in retail channels is due to them not being able to move the stock (the enterprise did not adopt this product). As for healthcare, where were you when they adopted iPads (and aviation as well)? The device is worthless without me having to actually tell people that.
@dookiex Go look at Amazon, TigerDirect, Newegg, etc. There are customer reviews there from people who actually bought this and enjoy using it. So, there are people who like it. You can’t just go around telling people a device is worthless just because you don’t see any value in it. and, regarding statistics, check out the articles about how the healthcare industry is starting to adopt these Slates. They’re obviously buying them.
@piratesmvp Wow, you’re really really grasping at straws here. Do you have any idea how minute the amount of people actively using this is? It not only sold badly, it barely sold at all. Many of the units in the wild are basically freebies like the ones we have at the office. The fact is that this thing sold next to none. So no, there is NO reason to buy this instead of a Macbook Air… at all. The statistics CLEARLY indicates this (it’s so low that there are no statistics for sale on the Slate)
@dookiex Well, the difference is that Windows Mobile went outdated and ruined Microsoft’s reputation in the mobile industry. Then, they had to compete against Apple and Google which were already established there. With Windows 8, this is an update to an operating system that is already the most widely used in the world. So, they have the advantage that people will buy this device regardless of how bad it is. If it fails like Vista, they’ll just fix it up for Windows 9.
@piratesmvp That’s the problem, it will take at least a year for applications to catch up with Windows 8. MS doesn’t have a year to spare. A year was fine 5-7 years ago, it’s not fine now due to the mobile market and the cloud. It’s too little too late. As for incentives, they literally threw money at developers to develop for Window Phone 7, look how well they are doing there. You’re seriously grasping at straws here now.
@dookiex I know it didn’t sell well. But the fact that it didn’t sell zero and there are people actively using it shows that there are people who still like this device. Hence, the reason they would buy it instead of a Macbook Air.
@piratesmvp You obviously have not been keeping up on things. The Slate has NEVER sold well. That is a fact. It never sold well for the same reason that Dell tablet laptops never really sold well. The touch functionality is negligible because at the end of the day, it’s really a laptop that is missing the keyboard half, in which again, going with a laptop is the much better move (at the time the MBA’s were the lightest full laptops, slightly heavier than an iPad).
@dookiex How do you know Microsoft will not require or provide some sort of incentive for developers to write Metro apps? Many things can change in a year.
@dookiex No, I don’t own the device (though I am planning on purchasing it after the price drop from Slate 2) but that has nothing to do with answering your original question. Let’s keep your original question in mind. You asked buy this instead of the Air. My answer was that this has pen when Air doesn’t. That’s just the fact. You may not agree with that reasoning, but that’s the fact of why the Slate sells. People want inking ability and devices like this meet their needs.
@piratesmvp Because it’s there if you actually paid attention. They’ve been working on touch since Windows CE. Windows 8 is a complete departure from what Microsoft has been playing with. It’s also something that they’ve clearly developed AFTER iOS took off, particularly when the iPad 1 released and became an overnight success (totally unexpected, it basically moved my enterprise to adopt ActiveSync, it’s ironic that a Apple product drove a MS technology adoption).
@piratesmvp Again, you’re not understanding the problem here. It’s not really an issue for the OS, it’s an issue with Microsoft’s implementation. They need to REQUIRE all developers to redesign and have their applications made for Metro in order to be Win 8 compatible. Without having the Metro UI design, applications are essentially typical mouse and keyboard applications. THAT is the problem, it’s a business logistics problem, not a technical problem. Great for normal PC, not good for touch.
@piratesmvp Again, if you actually had this device and used it, you will see that one very well should just use a laptop since going at it with just the stylus makes this a very hard machine to work with since the APPLICATIONS are designed around keyboard and mouse (I’m not even talking about this from a OS level). That’s going to be the problem initially for Windows 8, that majority of the applications will not have the Metro UI.
@dookiex I’m not defending anything, I’m just stating some facts. You asked at the beginning of our discussion why someone would buy this instead of a Macbook Air. Regardless of how you see this device, there are some people who would find touch usable for stuff like onenote. That’s the reason they would buy this device. They have their reasons for the same reason you have yours for not buying this tablet.
@dookiex How do you know what direction they were going? Nobody knows what they testing except the execs and the employees who were working on the project. Given that Microsoft has been researching touch for a few years, it would make sense to assume that Windows 8 is the product of those years of research. That said, I’m not knocking iOS. I’m just answering your original question of why someone would buy this instead of Macbook air, and the answer is that this has touch and the Air does not.
@piratesmvp I admit that we haven’t throw Photoshop at it (if it has pressure sensitivity, PS should show it working) as this is strictly a enterprise product and thus a productivity machine. In Windows and the Office suite of products, this thing works pretty much the same that our Dell convertible tablet laptops works. Really though, you’re speculating through all this, we actually have one of the few on hand and had been testing it. Not sure why you are defending this so badly.
@dookiex Again, you’re assuming that the final product will be identical to the developer preview. The final product will be totally different. Look at how Microsoft has already changed the start menu. they’ll keep making more changes as user feedback comes in, and the final release may be more fluid than you think. I’m not saying it will be, I’m just saying you can’t knock an OS for aspects that may or may not exist in the final release.
@dookiex You’re wrong. This HP Slate 500 has an N-trig stylus which is pressure sensitive. The TC1100 supports pressure sensitivity since it has a wacom screen. As per HP spec sheet, “Battery-free, pressure sensitive pen for the ultimate writing experience”. Pressure sensitivity is in almost all Windows tablets that come with an active digitizer pen. If it’s not working for you, then it’s the software that’s not supporting it.
@piratesmvp If you actually looked at what they were experimenting on, it’s a far cry from what iOS is. They were going in a completely different direction. Just because they were testing touch does not mean that they had a good implementation of it. iOS is an excellent implementation of touch and it was a OS built around touch input as opposed to MS approach which is to have touch as a feature instead of designing and building for it. You really need to go back and research this better.
@piratesmvp Pressure sensitive stylus input is only available on the Wacom tablet (Bamboo, Intuos) and the Cintiq. On a Windows tablet, that doesn’t exist unless you hook a Bamboo or Intuos up to it (or Cintiq of course). The Windows OS allows for thin line input from the stylus but that’s actually available on iOS as well (the key is building in line thickness options within the application, which many drawing and painting applications on iOS allows for, go check out samples).
@dookiex I don’t think so. If you look at interviews with Bill Gates and other top executives from a few years ago. You can see that Microsoft Research has been testing different types of touchscreen UIs for a few years now. And don’t forget that Steven Sinofsky basically saved Windows. Microsoft brought him in after Vista disappointed and Windows 7 was his brainchild. Now, he’s using that same innovation to come up with Windows 8. And Windows 8 RTM will be very different than the dev preview.
@dookiex I’m not talking about your external Wacom tablet. I’m talking about devices like the HP tx and tm series, or the Toshiba, Dell, or Lenovo convertibles. Or, the classic HP Compaq TC1100. These are tablet pcs with Wacom touchscreens. So, you can actually see what you’re writing and a much smaller learning curve than those external tablets (I haven’t the patience to get used to the Wacom tablets in photoshop).
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@dookiex Part of the problem is that they just don’t care. They could make the device better by adding some third party apps or creating their own interface. They should have teamed up with Firefox to create a touch friendly browser. Second, they should dual-boot this device with WebOS. Thirdly, they need to advertise it more.
@piratesmvp The reason there’s a Slate 2 is most likely due to contractual agreements with MS (the original Slate was released due to contractual agreements, is more Microsoft’s product than HP’s, Microsoft gave us our unit, not HP). The device was DOA and even HP didn’t want to release it but they were MS main tablet vendor for Windows 7 tablets. There’s a reason that HP never produced these things in large volumes (I think for the original Slate, they are still selling their initial stock).
@dookiex Sure it is a small number, but it’s still some people when you implied that no one could possibly like this device. And, if the device is really failing that badly, why did HP just announce Slate 2? And, yes, the iPad is a very useful tool in many professional environments, but that doesn’t mean other companies can’t try to compete.
@piratesmvp Negligible number of review. You have to remember, this thing came out as strictly a enterprise product and was initially sold strictly through their enterprise services. The fact that it ended up in retail channels is due to them not being able to move the stock (the enterprise did not adopt this product). As for healthcare, where were you when they adopted iPads (and aviation as well)? The device is worthless without me having to actually tell people that.
@dookiex Go look at Amazon, TigerDirect, Newegg, etc. There are customer reviews there from people who actually bought this and enjoy using it. So, there are people who like it. You can’t just go around telling people a device is worthless just because you don’t see any value in it. and, regarding statistics, check out the articles about how the healthcare industry is starting to adopt these Slates. They’re obviously buying them.
@piratesmvp Wow, you’re really really grasping at straws here. Do you have any idea how minute the amount of people actively using this is? It not only sold badly, it barely sold at all. Many of the units in the wild are basically freebies like the ones we have at the office. The fact is that this thing sold next to none. So no, there is NO reason to buy this instead of a Macbook Air… at all. The statistics CLEARLY indicates this (it’s so low that there are no statistics for sale on the Slate)
@dookiex Well, the difference is that Windows Mobile went outdated and ruined Microsoft’s reputation in the mobile industry. Then, they had to compete against Apple and Google which were already established there. With Windows 8, this is an update to an operating system that is already the most widely used in the world. So, they have the advantage that people will buy this device regardless of how bad it is. If it fails like Vista, they’ll just fix it up for Windows 9.
@piratesmvp That’s the problem, it will take at least a year for applications to catch up with Windows 8. MS doesn’t have a year to spare. A year was fine 5-7 years ago, it’s not fine now due to the mobile market and the cloud. It’s too little too late. As for incentives, they literally threw money at developers to develop for Window Phone 7, look how well they are doing there. You’re seriously grasping at straws here now.
@dookiex I know it didn’t sell well. But the fact that it didn’t sell zero and there are people actively using it shows that there are people who still like this device. Hence, the reason they would buy it instead of a Macbook Air.
@piratesmvp You obviously have not been keeping up on things. The Slate has NEVER sold well. That is a fact. It never sold well for the same reason that Dell tablet laptops never really sold well. The touch functionality is negligible because at the end of the day, it’s really a laptop that is missing the keyboard half, in which again, going with a laptop is the much better move (at the time the MBA’s were the lightest full laptops, slightly heavier than an iPad).
@dookiex How do you know Microsoft will not require or provide some sort of incentive for developers to write Metro apps? Many things can change in a year.
@dookiex No, I don’t own the device (though I am planning on purchasing it after the price drop from Slate 2) but that has nothing to do with answering your original question. Let’s keep your original question in mind. You asked buy this instead of the Air. My answer was that this has pen when Air doesn’t. That’s just the fact. You may not agree with that reasoning, but that’s the fact of why the Slate sells. People want inking ability and devices like this meet their needs.
@piratesmvp Because it’s there if you actually paid attention. They’ve been working on touch since Windows CE. Windows 8 is a complete departure from what Microsoft has been playing with. It’s also something that they’ve clearly developed AFTER iOS took off, particularly when the iPad 1 released and became an overnight success (totally unexpected, it basically moved my enterprise to adopt ActiveSync, it’s ironic that a Apple product drove a MS technology adoption).
@piratesmvp Again, you’re not understanding the problem here. It’s not really an issue for the OS, it’s an issue with Microsoft’s implementation. They need to REQUIRE all developers to redesign and have their applications made for Metro in order to be Win 8 compatible. Without having the Metro UI design, applications are essentially typical mouse and keyboard applications. THAT is the problem, it’s a business logistics problem, not a technical problem. Great for normal PC, not good for touch.
@piratesmvp Again, if you actually had this device and used it, you will see that one very well should just use a laptop since going at it with just the stylus makes this a very hard machine to work with since the APPLICATIONS are designed around keyboard and mouse (I’m not even talking about this from a OS level). That’s going to be the problem initially for Windows 8, that majority of the applications will not have the Metro UI.
@dookiex I’m not defending anything, I’m just stating some facts. You asked at the beginning of our discussion why someone would buy this instead of a Macbook Air. Regardless of how you see this device, there are some people who would find touch usable for stuff like onenote. That’s the reason they would buy this device. They have their reasons for the same reason you have yours for not buying this tablet.
@dookiex How do you know what direction they were going? Nobody knows what they testing except the execs and the employees who were working on the project. Given that Microsoft has been researching touch for a few years, it would make sense to assume that Windows 8 is the product of those years of research. That said, I’m not knocking iOS. I’m just answering your original question of why someone would buy this instead of Macbook air, and the answer is that this has touch and the Air does not.
@piratesmvp I admit that we haven’t throw Photoshop at it (if it has pressure sensitivity, PS should show it working) as this is strictly a enterprise product and thus a productivity machine. In Windows and the Office suite of products, this thing works pretty much the same that our Dell convertible tablet laptops works. Really though, you’re speculating through all this, we actually have one of the few on hand and had been testing it. Not sure why you are defending this so badly.
@dookiex Again, you’re assuming that the final product will be identical to the developer preview. The final product will be totally different. Look at how Microsoft has already changed the start menu. they’ll keep making more changes as user feedback comes in, and the final release may be more fluid than you think. I’m not saying it will be, I’m just saying you can’t knock an OS for aspects that may or may not exist in the final release.
@dookiex You’re wrong. This HP Slate 500 has an N-trig stylus which is pressure sensitive. The TC1100 supports pressure sensitivity since it has a wacom screen. As per HP spec sheet, “Battery-free, pressure sensitive pen for the ultimate writing experience”. Pressure sensitivity is in almost all Windows tablets that come with an active digitizer pen. If it’s not working for you, then it’s the software that’s not supporting it.
@piratesmvp If you actually looked at what they were experimenting on, it’s a far cry from what iOS is. They were going in a completely different direction. Just because they were testing touch does not mean that they had a good implementation of it. iOS is an excellent implementation of touch and it was a OS built around touch input as opposed to MS approach which is to have touch as a feature instead of designing and building for it. You really need to go back and research this better.
@piratesmvp Pressure sensitive stylus input is only available on the Wacom tablet (Bamboo, Intuos) and the Cintiq. On a Windows tablet, that doesn’t exist unless you hook a Bamboo or Intuos up to it (or Cintiq of course). The Windows OS allows for thin line input from the stylus but that’s actually available on iOS as well (the key is building in line thickness options within the application, which many drawing and painting applications on iOS allows for, go check out samples).
@dookiex I don’t think so. If you look at interviews with Bill Gates and other top executives from a few years ago. You can see that Microsoft Research has been testing different types of touchscreen UIs for a few years now. And don’t forget that Steven Sinofsky basically saved Windows. Microsoft brought him in after Vista disappointed and Windows 7 was his brainchild. Now, he’s using that same innovation to come up with Windows 8. And Windows 8 RTM will be very different than the dev preview.
@dookiex I’m not talking about your external Wacom tablet. I’m talking about devices like the HP tx and tm series, or the Toshiba, Dell, or Lenovo convertibles. Or, the classic HP Compaq TC1100. These are tablet pcs with Wacom touchscreens. So, you can actually see what you’re writing and a much smaller learning curve than those external tablets (I haven’t the patience to get used to the Wacom tablets in photoshop).